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  #26  
Old November 29th, 2007, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Neldorwen View Post
Here go my two cents about this:

there was also a green flash when the Black Pear returns from Davy Jones´ locker, meaning that Jack´s soul was back from the dead, so the green flash of light only means that passing.

Will died. He was killed by Davy Jones using the sword he once forged for the Commodore. Then the crew of the Flying Dutchman and his father claimed him as their captain ("the Dutchman mus have a captain" he said") and so he became inmortal. That will never change.

I think the curse that is broken when he returns after 10 years and meet his family is the one that doomed Davy Jones to a life of darkness, sorrow and villainy when he returned and did not find Calypso waiting for him. But Will will remain inmortal and bound to the ship, returning only one day every 10 years to see how his family is doing
What Nel says is correct. The green flash is the way between the two worlds, if a soul journeys back from the dead.
The Captain of the Flying Dutchman has to do his job.. ferry the dead from one side to the other. The freen flash is the passage way.

Will has become immortal because he basiscally stabbed the heart.. so the curse goes on to him. He may step ashore once every ten year.. regardless who or what waits for him.. *sniffles* (nice tough of the writers to suggest that if Liz stayed faithful to Will he could get back to land, but the story tells us otherwise..) Davy was doomed because he didn't do the job he was supposed to do, hence Calypso did not wait for him and he turned into evil creature he was.
Will does not turn tentacly because he's not cursed in that way, Lizzie loves him and he does his job and remains as pretty as he is........sighs..

What was I saying? oh yes.. right...
The curse only ends when Will's heart is stabbed, but then the one who stabbs it must take his place.....

Here's my suggestion:
I say we get Calypso to break this curse in part 4 LOL and bring Will to land!
All in favor say AYE!!
.....And we'll have Will make more babies like his gorgeous son
I'm volunteering..
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  #27  
Old November 29th, 2007, 01:33 PM
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AYE!!!!!
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  #28  
Old November 29th, 2007, 01:40 PM
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Definitely AYE - but I'm holding on to the happy ending in my head - couldn't cope otherwise...all that effort and crap ending...


cheers
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  #29  
Old November 29th, 2007, 01:54 PM
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Me too, I like the happy end.
I actually need that happy end in my version of the story (what my sig is about), otherwise it wouldn't work
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  #30  
Old November 29th, 2007, 02:20 PM
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AYE! Best idea I've heard about it so far!
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  #31  
Old November 29th, 2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andnolewen View Post
What Nel says is correct. The green flash is the way between the two worlds, if a soul journeys back from the dead.
The Captain of the Flying Dutchman has to do his job.. ferry the dead from one side to the other. The freen flash is the passage way.

Will has become immortal because he basiscally stabbed the heart.. so the curse goes on to him. He may step ashore once every ten year.. regardless who or what waits for him.. *sniffles* (nice tough of the writers to suggest that if Liz stayed faithful to Will he could get back to land, but the story tells us otherwise..) Davy was doomed because he didn't do the job he was supposed to do, hence Calypso did not wait for him and he turned into evil creature he was.
Will does not turn tentacly because he's not cursed in that way, Lizzie loves him and he does his job and remains as pretty as he is........sighs..

What was I saying? oh yes.. right...
The curse only ends when Will's heart is stabbed, but then the one who stabbs it must take his place.....

Here's my suggestion:
I say we get Calypso to break this curse in part 4 LOL and bring Will to land!
All in favor say AYE!!
.....And we'll have Will make more babies like his gorgeous son
I'm volunteering..

actually those are two different curses, the Davy Jones one is the heart, and now that Will is captain he can make the rules like Jones did. Calypso's curse is sailing the sea for 10 years, the key in their conversation being that she wasn't there waiting for him when his 10 yrs were up.

Then and only then did he betray her to the Brethren Court and then removed his heart, hiding it away creating a separate curse, and corrupting his purpose. But he did do the job for 10 years. She wasn't there, he got angry. No one has to stab the heart to take over the job now because as the writer's said "the Dutchman sails as the captain orders it" or something to that extent.

So I'll keep the happy ending as well.
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  #32  
Old November 29th, 2007, 04:36 PM
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I'd just be happy to see any scenes that they filmed that didn't make it into the movies - especially if they have Will in them. Maybe they should release extended editions... I'm always up for more piraty goodness.
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  #33  
Old November 29th, 2007, 08:43 PM
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From "Wordplay" (Rossio & Elliott colums/forums:

http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/mov...cgi?read=98662

This is a very long, long column. I did read all of it (or most of it!) months ago when AWE came out and I was horrifed/heartbroken at the ending of the movie. Somewhere in all of this are comments made by Terry Rossio (I think) to the effect I stated before: Elizabeth remains true to Will and he is allowed to return to real life and stay with his family after the 10 years. I still think that stinks and he and Elizabeth got punished for nothing. However.....if you have the time and interest, see if you can find the exact quote. I'll try later tonight after RL obligations.

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  #34  
Old November 29th, 2007, 08:59 PM
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I dunno if it is a big deal in the end it IS a film, and there is no one stopping fan fic writers, peoples imaginations taking it where ever they want, but I am with absoluteimp on this to be honest. Whatever the writers say might have been in there about lifting the 'curse' after 10 years, isn't in fact. He took over the FD, as Calypso wanted him to because she knew he would do the job and ferry the dead. If he doesn't who will? And yeah he can't get his heart back into his body can he?
Sort of a sad and, for some, an unsatisfactory ending, but for me it was about Will being who he was meant to be.
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  #35  
Old November 29th, 2007, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by caseymochridh View Post
I still think that stinks and he and Elizabeth got punished for nothing.
Actually, if you think about it, Will would have died from being stabbed by Davy Jones, so they at least get to be together for the small amount of time they do get. Right?

Mirk
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  #36  
Old November 30th, 2007, 12:13 AM
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actually those are two different curses, the Davy Jones one is the heart, and now that Will is captain he can make the rules like Jones did. Calypso's curse is sailing the sea for 10 years, the key in their conversation being that she wasn't there waiting for him when his 10 yrs were up.

Then and only then did he betray her to the Brethren Court and then removed his heart, hiding it away creating a separate curse, and corrupting his purpose. But he did do the job for 10 years. She wasn't there, he got angry. No one has to stab the heart to take over the job now because as the writer's said "the Dutchman sails as the captain orders it" or something to that extent.

So I'll keep the happy ending as well.
Actually, the reason Davy Jones became cursed was because after he returned and Calypso wasn't there, he became enraged and STOPPED DOING HIS JOB - . But in the conversation between Calyso and Jones when she's locked up below deck, they talk explicitly about the reason why he became Tentacle Face, which was that he broke his promise to ferry souls to the other side - whereby dooming himself and his crew.

And it is the same curse, exactly the same, except that we know that Will is honorable and will do his duty, and we know that Lizzie will be waiting for him - those are the only 2 differences. The heart still has to be stabbed in order to kill the captain of the Flying Dutchman, which we know won't happen to Will because Lizzie has it kept safe (we hope!)

I think its a decent ending - except Liz and the boy get the raw end of the stick and Will is doomed to a lifetime of sexual frustration!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuit View Post
I dunno if it is a big deal in the end it IS a film, and there is no one stopping fan fic writers, peoples imaginations taking it where ever they want, but I am with absoluteimp on this to be honest. Whatever the writers say might have been in there about lifting the 'curse' after 10 years, isn't in fact. He took over the FD, as Calypso wanted him to because she knew he would do the job and ferry the dead. If he doesn't who will? And yeah he can't get his heart back into his body can he?
Sort of a sad and, for some, an unsatisfactory ending, but for me it was about Will being who he was meant to be.
Thanks, and I agree that Will makes a stellar Cappie of the Flying Dutchman!
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  #37  
Old November 30th, 2007, 12:54 AM
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yes tenticle Davy is a part of the Calypso curse but the heart being stabbed isn't, the heart is a part of the Davy curse that he created. And who's to say that when Will comes back he isn't fully restored as the crew was? That's all realm of speculation since there isn't anything to say different.

But it is an ambiguous film and to each his own.
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  #38  
Old November 30th, 2007, 02:32 AM
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God almighty! My head is spinning - HAPPY ENDING (fingers in ears, la la la la la la la la)
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  #39  
Old November 30th, 2007, 03:47 AM
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HAPPY ENDING (fingers in ears, la la la la la la la la)
*cuddles with Luna in Happy Ending Land*
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  #40  
Old November 30th, 2007, 04:04 AM
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*pries Luna's fingers out of her ears* Hey, Luna... in POTC4, Will gets to stay on land and Elizabeth takes over on the Dutchman, she is a Captain after all... share the load, right? Isn't that what marriage is all about?


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  #41  
Old November 30th, 2007, 04:27 AM
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Thanks Lyn, needed that hug!! And Mirk, I like the sound of that - E can sail off into the sunset on her little voyages and leave Will in my bed - heartless or not, I'll take him any way I can get him!

*reinserts fingers and dreams of Happily Ever After Land - with the sound of Gem and Ki and Nuit probably retching in the background*
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  #42  
Old November 30th, 2007, 04:42 AM
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*carefully sets out industrial sized buckets*

I don't think Ki will be needing one though, she and I were quite distraught at the ending of the movie as was, and almost decided not to even see it a second time.

I have no quarrels with anyone who prefers darker endings, it's just my feeling that life sucks enough as it is-- I want my movies to end sweetly.
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  #43  
Old November 30th, 2007, 07:44 AM
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Isn't it rather dumb to argue about this?

The people who want a happy ending after ten years can have that,and those who can cope with once every ten years can have that.
Like nuit says,it's a film.

Llyn,you'd better get that AWE DVD and watch it a million times.Then we can chat!
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  #44  
Old November 30th, 2007, 08:56 AM
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Well I don't know about dumb- got to find something to do while he decides on the next project huh?! I do find it fascinating how this story has it has sparked so many intense emotions and convictions, not just here but in general, whatever Disney intended people have taken the story on several notches.
Aw Luna it's not that i don't like a happy ending, I just think there is more than one interpretation of what that means is all, more than 'boy gets girl'.
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  #45  
Old November 30th, 2007, 06:30 PM
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I chose the wrong word,discussion is not dumb.But arguing is.

Oh,and *boy gets girl* works very nicely for me.
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  #46  
Old November 30th, 2007, 06:39 PM
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yes tenticle Davy is a part of the Calypso curse but the heart being stabbed isn't, the heart is a part of the Davy curse that he created.
So why did they have the half dead Will stab Davey Jones heart and then having his father cut out Will's heart? If the heart thing isn't part of Will's curse as well, why would it need to be cut out and kept SAFE with Elizabeth? The reason is so that noone can trifle with it, stab it and kill the Capt of the Flying Dutchman.


Quote:
And who's to say that when Will comes back he isn't fully restored as the crew was? That's all realm of speculation since there isn't anything to say different.
The crew's barnacle curse was lifted, but they are still immortal (as they ARE dead) and still bound to the Flying Dutchman to serve out their hundred years. So I don't understand what you mean by them being "restored". Their physical appearance was restored, but that was all.


And some of you are saying that we are arguing over this, I wouldn't say that at all - we are merely discussing the film from our various viewpoints. I should hope that we can do that without being accused of arguing.


And here's a question: When Will does go ashore after ten years for the one night, is he MORTAL for that one night? Is that possible without his heart? How did Lizzie get pregnant by a dead man?
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  #47  
Old November 30th, 2007, 07:34 PM
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I view it as discussion as well over what could possibly have happened not arguing so I hope it's ok.

And yes, Will had to go along and fulfill the Davy curse and cut out his heart. But my point is that no one would have to do this to him. That curse was completed once Davy was dead. I'm going by what I have understood and also from what the writers have posted on their site. And they confirmed that Will would have say, and Calypso, on who the next captain would be, no heart stabbing.


And the crew I was referring to, was the part of the crew that was set free by the green flash that occured when Will left. There was some confusion, since the flash was described as souls returning, it wasn't a sign to mark an exit. And T&T referred to it as some of the crew not wanting to sail on the dutchman and getting a second chance at life. I know this is cheating cause I'm using the writer's word and not completely what was in the film, but knowing what the flash was intended to mean, I think it's reasonable to think that if they get a second chance at mortal life than Will could.

Of course all of that is pure speculation
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  #48  
Old November 30th, 2007, 08:23 PM
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http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/mov...cgi?read=98662

This is a very long, long column. I did read all of it (or most of it!) months ago when AWE came out and I was horrifed/heartbroken at the ending of the movie. Somewhere in all of this are comments made by Terry Rossio (I think) to the effect I stated before: Elizabeth remains true to Will and he is allowed to return to real life and stay with his family after the 10 years. I still think that stinks and he and Elizabeth got punished for nothing. However.....if you have the time and interest, see if you can find the exact quote. I'll try later tonight after RL obligations.

Here is what Terry said on Wordplayer when AWE was first released (and before he was aware of the final editing of the film) about the curse being broken, and also about the possibility of Elizabeth being “forbidden” from visiting with Will aboard the Flying Dutchman during the ten years. (Sorry, I do not have actual links since I simply copied and saved the original posts.)

Posted by Terry on Wednesday, 23 May 2007, at 12:31 p.m., in response to Re: Ah, that Davy Jones curse thing ..., posted by curious mate on Wednesday, 23 May 2007, at 8:55 a.m.

"I don't know that I would say, "forbidden." There might be some story to be told where Elizabeth manages to make a trip to the land of the dead, with the help of someone, etc., etc., to find Will, etc.

But the basic requirement is that Will agrees captain the Flying Dutchmen (in return for what the film reveals) and that he can step on land but once every ten years, and that at any time, if he finds a love that is true (this is part of the original Flying Dutchman opera by the way) then his attachment to the ship is broken."

The final editing of the move made Will’s fate less clear, and here are Terry & Ted’s posts regarding about what was shown on screen:

Posted by Terry on Wednesday, 24 May 2007, at 12:04 a.m., in response to Re: Mr. Rossio I have 3 questions SPOILERS, posted by tita on Tuesday, 22 May 2007, at 8:40 p.m.

"Okay, it turns out that my original post on Davy Jones and the curse was made prior to seeing the final version of the movie myself.

And it turns out that the information we wrote for one of the scenes didn't make it into the final cut (regarding the curse).

Given the lost information, my prior post doesn't apply. You might be able to derive that the curse could be broken from the information in the film, but it would be indeed difficult.

(For me, it doesn't make sense if you presume there is no difference, you can come to shore once every ten years if your love is true, you can come to shore once every ten years if your love isn't true.)

My other point still applies -- Jones corrupted himself by his own choice to abandon the task assigned him. Calypso did not control that choice."

Posted by Ted Elliott on Friday, 15 June 2007, at 3:17 p.m., in response to Re: Ted: "We actually took nitpicking into account ...", posted by Haunt on Friday, 15 June 2007, at 9:34 a.m.

"Let me see if I can clarify something:

As written and shot, it would have been *equally* possible to discern from the movie either version of "What happens after ten years?" In other words, it would have been clear -- okay, clear*er* -- to the audience that we *intended* for this question to remain unresolved.

However, as edited and released, it is far easier to discern from the movie that what happens after ten years is, one day ashore, then back to sea for another ten years.

So, pretty soon after the movie was released, Terry posted here that it was possible to discern from the movie that Will's service ended after ten years, but it was difficult to do so (go back and read the post). He did not definitively state that is what *would* happen, only that it could be discerned that it *could* happen. However, he also added that he believes that it ended.

That has morphed into, the writers have said that the curse ended. Well, no, they didn't. One of the writers said he believed it ended.

However, what I've said a number of times is this:

Whether or not Will's service ends after ten years is beside the point of Elizabeth and Will's story, and any definitive statement, one way or another, actually dilutes the point of their story. The intention of the movie is to leave the question unresolved, to leave the audiences' understanding of Will and Elizabeth's future uncertain, because that is far more reflective of the circumstances the characters are in. They can't know, they can only have faith (as in "faithful" -- you know, that word does have meanings other than just"sexual fidelity").

So: its possible to discern either version of the "ten years-one day" condition from the movie, but where it should have been *equally* possible, editing resulted in it be more difficult to discern one version than the other.

(and, like Terry, I know what I believe, but I'm going to keep it to myself, thanks -- but I will point out:

The terms of service Calypso charged to Davy Jones did not require Jones to cut out his heart and put it in a chest, or require that if someone stabbed the heart, theirs must take its place, or *anything* heart-related -- he's the one that did all that, and only *after* he'd been Captain of the Dutchman for ten years)."

Here is what Terry says in response to a poster who is “confused” about who would take Will’s place as Captain of the Flying Dutchman since there must always be a captain :

Posted by Terry on Friday, 25 May 2007, at 12:57 p.m., in response to Re: I'm sorry but I disagree too, posted by Nera on Friday, 25 May 2007, at 11:00 a.m.

"I'm amazed that you are confused. The answer seems obvious: 'someone other than Will, who hasn't been picked yet.'

I understand you don't know who it might be. Probably even Calypso might not know.

The United States must always have a President. Not knowing who the next President might be should not cause you confusion in the matter."

As for restoring Will’s heart, it seems to me that a movie trilogy that began as a story about lifting a curse and later had no difficulties with plot twists that returned characters from the dead, would easily be able to find a way to restore Will’s heart. I understand that others may interpert it differently, but at least in my little world, where I want Will to be happy and think that he would need to be with those he loves most in order to have that happiness, that is my reasoning, unless and until a POTC4 shows me something different on screen.
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  #49  
Old November 30th, 2007, 10:00 PM
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My thing is.....I'm going by what info was relayed in the movie itself, not by ideas that the writers set forth that did not make it into the movie. I mean, if it didn't make it into the movie, then its not relevant. *shrugs*

Quote:
But the basic requirement is that Will agrees captain the Flying Dutchmen (in return for what the film reveals) and that he can step on land but once every ten years, and that at any time, if he finds a love that is true (this is part of the original Flying Dutchman opera by the way) then his attachment to the ship is broken."
Once every 10 years, not "is free after 10 years"...it implies that there is more than 10 years AND he already has a true love so why isn't he free immediately? Is Terry TRYING to confuse??

Seems that Gore didn't want to convey those other ideas about Will's fate in the film itself, or he would not have cut it. I suppose everyone is free to choose to go by the writers intent, rather than the film itself, to feel that Will's future will be happy, but for me - I just go by what I understood from the film.

And that's all I have to say about that. I know you're all jumping with joy! LOL!

Last edited by absoluteimp; November 30th, 2007 at 10:04 PM.
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  #50  
Old November 30th, 2007, 10:45 PM
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I think it's fun to have these discussions of all of our differing takes on things... you can even speculate in here without getting modded

I find it interesting how some people will do anything to twist things around so there is a happy ending, and then you have others who twist things their was. It's all in accordance with how you, as an individual, saw the ending.

*sits back and waits for more*
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