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  #26  
Old May 9th, 2005, 08:14 AM
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Leggybelle, that's what I did with LotRs too. I only bought the EE dvds. I was lucky though, my friend bought the theatrical ones and I bought the EE ones, so we swap. We'll probably do the same for KoH, if she likes it enough to buy. We don't always have the same taste, and she's not a orlando fan.
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  #27  
Old May 9th, 2005, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHFX
As most of you know, I have been working with this film, at the back end, in the production of our line of LTD Edition pieces for close to a year. During that time, I must have read the shooting script a dozen times. Though I loved the final film, I was sorely bummed that so many GREAT subplots and scenes were cut.

(spoilers) The whole scene with the "boy king", who takes the throne after Baldwin the IV dies, then is murdered by Sybilla, a whole scene with Godfrey in the French castle the night before he is attacked, the duel between Balian and Guy...which allows him to "morally" marry Sybilla....well, the list goes on-and-on. I cannot wait for the Extended DVD!
I haven't read the whole script, but as I worked in Spain as stand-in for Balian, where they shot the begining and the end of the film, I think Ridley Scott has deleted too many scenes specially of the begining. Scenes that introduce you the story and specially the character of Balian.
The scene of Balian in jail, Balian waking up in his bed, Balian with the cradle of his dead child, the flash-back of young Godfrey and of course the dinner in the castle.
In my oppinion it's a pity that he jumps to quickly into action.
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  #28  
Old May 9th, 2005, 02:06 PM
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Now that I read about many of the scenes that had been cut out of the original movie, Iīm disappointed . I mean I really liked the movie, but it could have been a lot better!!!

Itīs sad that they kind of had to adapt the movie to the (assumed) needs of the average audience . I wouldnīt mind if the movie was an hour longer, I asked myself anyway "is it over, yet???" when the movie ended.

Well, guess we have to wait for the real deal for another year .

Stupid as I am, I will buy both DVDs as I canīt wait .
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  #29  
Old May 9th, 2005, 02:11 PM
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If there are 6 different dvd-versions, then I'll probably buy them all. I'm sick, I know... but I can't help myself
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  #30  
Old May 9th, 2005, 07:00 PM
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DaveHFX and viczgz, you guys are so lucky to have anything to do with this film!

Those scenes you both mentioned sound amazing! Do either of you know if they're including everything they cut, or just selected parts in the EE?

SPOILERS (?): Also when Sybilla asks Balian if he can help her set right some wrong that she did (or something like that), is this about the boy king? If it wasn't, can anybody explain what she did that was so terrible. That part confused me, it seemed like she chose Guy, but I thought she didn't have a choice? To me it seemed that she made the choice, but I didn't feel we had all of the information to completely understand what was really going on.
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  #31  
Old May 9th, 2005, 07:16 PM
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I felt she was talking about Guy though, Care... helping him on the throne somehow... even if she couldn't help it, she did feel bad about it.
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  #32  
Old May 9th, 2005, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
The scene of Balian in jail, Balian waking up in his bed, Balian with the cradle of his dead child, the flash-back of young Godfrey and of course the dinner in the castle.
In my oppinion it's a pity that he jumps to quickly into action.
vic, care to elaborate on these scenes?? I'm curious as to where they would have fit in to the version we saw in the theater. Oh and make sure to leave a spolier space or use the spoiler tags
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  #33  
Old May 9th, 2005, 09:23 PM
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"Balian with the cradle of his dead child"
OMG, how could they leave that out?

If there is one fault with the movie, it's that you couldn't emphasize with Balian's character initially. What was Ridley Scott thinking ?? That cradle scene (and any other scene with his wife before her suicide) SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE PICTURE !!!

Also, does anyone remember from the trailer the scene with the two crocus (flowers) emerging from the ground? I thought it was very symbolic of redemption (new beginning) etc. In my mind, I figured they emerged at the end of the movie on his wife's grave.....symbolizing that both she and the child were redeemed by Balian's actions and were now in Heaven. BUT THAT WASN'T IN THE MOVIE......WHY NOT ?? It would have been so perfect and would have made everything that Balian did justified.

Oh, I hope all these scenes are in the EE DVD !!!
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  #34  
Old May 9th, 2005, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazi
If there are 6 different dvd-versions, then I'll probably buy them all. I'm sick, I know... but I can't help myself
Sazi you won't be alone there, but then I've learned that sometimes the extras etc on a theatrical cut and an extended cut tend to be different so I usually justify it with that line of thinking.

I SO can't wait for the extended edition. Usually when you have a director who laments the lost of material - and Ridley was doing that at the start - he was - he can't deny that - it just buffers the blow when you go see the movies and bits of the trailers aren't there. From reading this thread it just makes me wish I could get my hands on it now.
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  #35  
Old May 9th, 2005, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unplugged32
vic, care to elaborate on these scenes?? I'm curious as to where they would have fit in to the version we saw in the theater. Oh and make sure to leave a spolier space or use the spoiler tags
But of course!
as far as I know the scenes deleted would be these:
Spoiler

Ow! I had to re-start my computer 'cause I forgot one important scene also deleted:
Spoiler

Last edited by viczgz; May 10th, 2005 at 10:33 AM.
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  #36  
Old May 10th, 2005, 12:03 AM
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In the trailer for the movie on the Kingdom of Heaven site there is scene with a child. Who is the child supposed to be? He's a little blond kid who closes a door but it wasn't in the movie. Also, when Balian is back home at the end and looking at the ***** willows or whatever that plant was, was that supposed to symbolize something? I didn't get it.
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  #37  
Old May 10th, 2005, 12:16 AM
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Marilyn-I was wondering that too...I'm sure it does.

The thing that bugs me about cutting these scenes is that it really debits the character development, so sometimes, they come across as shallow or two-dimensional (remember Faramir before TTT EE?? ). Eva is right in saying that it creates a completely different character, and really detracts from the overall experience. I have to see this movie more to notice it, but in LOTR, I would notice whole scenes that didn't make sense until the movie was put back together. I really hope he (Scott) does an EE and doesn't just add a section of deleted scenes.
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  #38  
Old May 10th, 2005, 01:16 AM
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Marilyn.....the child is Sybilla's son.....who got cut out of the movie entirely.

My take on that scene at the end of the movie where Balian is looking at the *****willows just bursting into bloom (no pun intended !) is supposed to represent a new beginning.....which is what Spring is.....therefore the new life beginning for Balian with Sybilla.

And from what is posted above, i.e., the deleted scenes, I think that we really did get cheated out of learning more about Balian's love for his wife and his torment at her death. It would have made him a much more sympathetic character.

Last edited by Leggybelle; May 10th, 2005 at 01:19 AM.
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  #39  
Old May 10th, 2005, 06:43 AM
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I remember in one of the trailers that you see a child running into the arms of a woman with long black hair. I wonder if that's Balian's wife and child that he's remembering?
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  #40  
Old May 10th, 2005, 07:00 AM
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I am just wondering, can a movie win the Best Picture Oscar based on the director's cut in the dvd rather than the theatrical version? The movie has a LOT of potential in my own opinion.
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  #41  
Old May 10th, 2005, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candi
I remember in one of the trailers that you see a child running into the arms of a woman with long black hair. I wonder if that's Balian's wife and child that he's remembering?
Candi, I think that's Sybilla and her child; Balian's child was an infant as I understand.

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  #42  
Old May 10th, 2005, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candi
I remember in one of the trailers that you see a child running into the arms of a woman with long black hair. I wonder if that's Balian's wife and child that he's remembering?
That woman is Sibylla and the child is her son, that we don't see in the film.
The wife of Balian has blond hair and his child was a baby, he was in a cradle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leggybelle
My take on that scene at the end of the movie where Balian is looking at the *****willows just bursting into bloom (no pun intended !) is supposed to represent a new beginning.....which is what Spring is.....therefore the new life beginning for Balian with Sybilla.
Exactly Leggybelle!, that scene is described in the script with almost the same words as you did. A small description of the end of the film, wich includes that scene of Sibylla and the tree is on call-sheet nš 11 (fan encounters/members only).
If you take another view to the call-sheets posted in fan encounters you will find that many of the scenes described there, doesn't appear in the film.

The call-sheets refer to the tomb of Balian's wife as crossroads. People who commited suicide were buried in a croosroad so that everybody would step on them.

Last edited by viczgz; May 10th, 2005 at 12:26 PM.
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  #43  
Old May 10th, 2005, 11:09 AM
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Thank you so much viczgz for the explanations and spoilers - I really don't understand why the hell they cut out so much of Balian's evolution, it would be so important for the rest of the movie
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  #44  
Old May 10th, 2005, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaela
Thank you so much viczgz for the explanations and spoilers - I really don't understand why the hell they cut out so much of Balian's evolution, it would be so important for the rest of the movie
Yes Michaela, I think so too.
The explanation of Ridley Scott was that the film is too long for theatres, but if you remember, The return of the king or Braveheart, are more that 3 hours long and both films were the winners of their respective oscars editions.
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  #45  
Old May 10th, 2005, 12:31 PM
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Leggybelle, I also felt the buds and flowering of the plant represented a new beginning as did Balian riding up to and then leaving behind the past at the Crossroads. Balian and Sibylla are starting a new life together and it gives us some hope doesn't it?

Victor, thanks for the information on additional scenes. I'd known about certain scenes for a long time and when they weren't included in the theatrical release I was hoping they'd be in the extended DVD so it gives me comfort that they were at least FILMED so we know they COULD conceivably be amongst the scenes hopefully reintegrated into the directors' cut.
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  #46  
Old May 10th, 2005, 12:49 PM
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Ow, is a pleasure!, I'll be happy to tell everything I learnt in my little experience.
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  #47  
Old May 10th, 2005, 04:03 PM
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vic, thanks so much for all the information!! I have once more question about these scenes; since I'm guessing you saw them filmed, would you say that Orlando did a good job with them? Should we look forward to the dvd???
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  #48  
Old May 10th, 2005, 05:31 PM
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Yeah, for sure. I'll wait for the DVD like rain of May (well, that's something we say in Spain when you expect something very much).
All those scenes focus on the character of Balian and gives another view of him. As I said before I saw Orlando very concentrated in his work (though I'm not an expert in acting), but he seemed to be living the character very much.
Besides, those are the scenes that I really would love to see in the movie
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  #49  
Old May 10th, 2005, 06:12 PM
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Thanks so much, Vic, for your information about the missing scenes. I can see that this once must have truly been a great script and wonderful story, as they've been saying. I wish they had shared it with the movie-going public.

About the flowering tree at the end ... I know I have read somewhere that in the full story, this small tree was planted by Balian's wife before her death. Thus, his finding it alive, thriving, and in flower was a completion of a much bigger circle. It could be interpreted as fulfilment of his wish to redeem her by its survival and continued growth and blossoming. Perhaps a message from the Higher Power he has lost faith in? A lovely image .. that we were denied.

I don't know where to put this small whine of mine, but I really need to say it. (Keep in mind I thought Orlando did a wonderful job with the character - and I fully intend to go back and see this film some more before it's gone.)

At this particular place in time, though, I am feeling a bit used ... and also that Orlando has been, to a degree. Right now, I'm rather pi**ed at FOX. They tapped Orlando's current popularity and hired him, then tied the darn film so closely to Gladiator, Russell Crowe and Scott with all their advertising that comparisons would be inevitable. Critics trashed him because he wasn't Russell and the film because it wasn't Gladiator ... when they never were intended to be in the first place! I thought Orlando did a masterful job in the role, but false expectations were ramped up by the studio marketing. Now he'll be blamed for "not being leading man quality" if the film isn't a hit, but it's really because it was a chopped version of what seems to have been a great story and could have been a fantastic film. Phhffpht!

And putting all those cut scenes into the trailers was a cheap ploy to get butts in the seats ... (Someone said the whole film was a trailer for the director's cut DVD and they have a good point.) ... because it's left most of the audience disappointed and unable to make sense of the disconnected story we were shown. I'll suspect their advertising department shot themselves in the foot this time, if KOH doesn't make money. This seems to be a common trend with the current depressed film market and I hope they will stop this soon ... it doesn't win friends and I think it's hurtful to the actors whose careers get caught up in the marketing games. So many of the fan reviews and comments I've seen have said, "Orlando was wonderful and the film was beautiful, but..." They are looking for the rest of the story and the missing scenes from the trailers and previews.

Orlando himself will probably just cherish the experience as a wonderful learning opportunity and be grateful for it, bless his heart. I hope he can hold onto his sunny spirit ... in the face of Hollywood games and shenanigans. I'll just be annoyed on his behalf. *g*

Thanks for letting me rant ... back to your regularly scheduled plot-guessing. (Oops, I did it again ... sorry. )


PS... As I typed this message for posting, the gal-pal I saw KOH with called to say she had taken her husband to see it, and he loved it ... and she'd been discussing it with another friend ... and when can we go back to see it again? There's always hope.

.

Last edited by LadyNin; May 10th, 2005 at 10:50 PM.
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  #50  
Old May 10th, 2005, 06:42 PM
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Lady Nin,you sound like you think the movie isn't a hit.At least in Europe it's a big hit.

But I agree with everything else you said.
It seems that EE DVDs is going to be a new trend or something.I don't get why they can't put all the good stuff in and turn out a truly great film instead of chopping and cutting it.I realize it's for commercial reasons and trying to hit the mass market when it's such a big film that costs so much to make.
It seems the money people at FOX don't trust the audience enough.
When we could sit through 3 and a half hour during ROTK,we can do it with KoH.The audience has become used to long epics.
Or do they think the audience is tired of of 3hr movies? Or are they afraid to lose money because they can have fewer showings when the movie is longer?
I don't understand this.Do they make more money off releasing two sets of DVDs? I guess so.
Geez,now I feel used,too.Because of course I'll buy both DVDs.
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